Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

A forum for general AmigaOS 4.x support questions that are not platform-specific

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby broadblues » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:18 pm

@Deniil


have LimpidClock. It runs at pri -20. Increasing (not decreasing) LimpidClock's priority to *above* the CPU heavy task almost removes all stuttering!!!
I have a theory:
LimpidClock has a 1 second timer. It wants to run once a sec. Once in a while (when the CPU heavy waits for disk I/O perhaps) it gets to run for a brief moment, long enough to start a graphics operation and lock the system draw semaphore. Then it doesn't get to run again until the next second. During this second the CPU heavy task runs and the system, including mouse and keyboard are frozen.



I don't know what may have chnaged, but if that is remotely the case the Limpid design clock is very broken, you should not hold such drawing locks for an extended period. I'd guess it would be a calle to p96LockBitmap() or somesuch. I know from experimentation with SRec src that hold that lock even for very short periods can cause the mouse to appear to jitter slightly.

Solution is simple remove broken sftware like limpidlcok from your system.
User avatar
broadblues
AmigaOS Core Developer
AmigaOS Core Developer
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:40 am
Location: Portsmouth, UK

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby blmara » Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:27 pm

broadblues wrote:@Deniil


have LimpidClock. It runs at pri -20. Increasing (not decreasing) LimpidClock's priority to *above* the CPU heavy task almost removes all stuttering!!!
I have a theory:
LimpidClock has a 1 second timer. It wants to run once a sec. Once in a while (when the CPU heavy waits for disk I/O perhaps) it gets to run for a brief moment, long enough to start a graphics operation and lock the system draw semaphore. Then it doesn't get to run again until the next second. During this second the CPU heavy task runs and the system, including mouse and keyboard are frozen.



I don't know what may have chnaged, but if that is remotely the case the Limpid design clock is very broken, you should not hold such drawing locks for an extended period. I'd guess it would be a calle to p96LockBitmap() or somesuch. I know from experimentation with SRec src that hold that lock even for very short periods can cause the mouse to appear to jitter slightly.

Solution is simple remove broken sftware like limpidlcok from your system.


I have also experienced this unexplained jerky mouse movements in my X1000 system, especially when editing my program with CodeBench and maybe Odyssey active. In some other thread Odyssey was suspected to be the reason. Now I do have both these programs active but LimpidClock disabled and it seems to work better. However, LimpidClock is one of my favourite little programs. Maybe Thomas could give it an update if it is really the reason?

Marko
blmara
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:03 am

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby zzd10h » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:49 pm

@Broadblues

Solution is simple remove broken sftware like limpidlcok from your system.


But these "broken" softwares worked well under 4.1.6. Why FE broke the compatibility with these not very old programs ?

Me too, i encounter boring jerky mouse lock using CodeBench or Odyssey. I think that it's because I use CentaurZ Photoframe docky but no hope to see it updated...
http://apps.amistore.net/zTools
X1000 - AmigaOS 4.1.6 / 4.1 FE
zzd10h
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:40 am
Location: France

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby MichaelMerkel » Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:12 pm

well, thomas is reading here so he would be the correct person to ask what or if smth is broken with limpidclock. :o
so if smth is wrong he maybe simply could fix it?

regards...
michael
Last edited by MichaelMerkel on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael Merkel :lol:
(Member of Amiga Freunde Pfalz)
User avatar
MichaelMerkel
Beta Tester
Beta Tester
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:08 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby salass00 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:31 pm

I would say that holding a system critical lock while running at as low a priority at -20 is not maybe such a great idea after all. At least not with the simplistic scheduler that AmigaOS has been using since version 1.0.

Using any priority less than 0 guarantees that any regular task running at priority 0 can stop your task from ever getting any CPU simply by always being busy and never waiting.
User avatar
salass00
AmigaOS Core Developer
AmigaOS Core Developer
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:12 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby broadblues » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:29 pm

zzd10h wrote:@Broadblues

Solution is simple remove broken sftware like limpidlcok from your system.


But these "broken" softwares worked well under 4.1.6. Why FE broke the compatibility with these not very old programs ?


Well assuming Deniils theory is correct, runing at alow priority while holding such a lock, leaves you at the mercy of small chnages in the way the scheduler, internal graphics library lock timig etc.

And limpid clock is of 2006 vintage so likely not using Compositing for it's transparency etc.
User avatar
broadblues
AmigaOS Core Developer
AmigaOS Core Developer
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:40 am
Location: Portsmouth, UK

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby zzd10h » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:59 pm

@broadblues
Thank you. As I wrote, i have the same problem but not with limpidclock but with photoframe docky.
I will increase amidock priority to see if it helps.
http://apps.amistore.net/zTools
X1000 - AmigaOS 4.1.6 / 4.1 FE
zzd10h
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:40 am
Location: France

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby K-L » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:05 am

I gave up using LimpidClock months agos, I've just tried and I get no jerky mouse since you can modify the priority of LimpidClock using the menu (I choose -36). With LipidClok set to defautls, you'll get a jerky mouse (and display) every second. Just change its priority and the trouble is gone.

LimpidClock is not the culprit of the jerky mouse trouble when the X1000 experiences a huge load on its CPU. Even now I can experience this effect on seldom times (but far less than before since I'm now using a Radeon HD).

Something in FE for X1000 has changed and made this weird behaviour happen (that doesn't happen on Sam or AmigaOne XE).
--
AmigaONE X1000 / Radeon 2400 Pro (R610LE) / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
Samm440ep/733Mhs (o/c) / Radeon M9 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
K-L
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: Lyon, France

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby salass00 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:36 am

broadblues wrote:And limpid clock is of 2006 vintage so likely not using Compositing for it's transparency etc.


The limpid clock display is an app icon so it uses whatever the WB uses for rendering its icons.
User avatar
salass00
AmigaOS Core Developer
AmigaOS Core Developer
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:12 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Jerky mouse with dockies enabled on X1000/Radeon 9250

Postby broadblues » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:09 pm

salass00 wrote:
broadblues wrote:And limpid clock is of 2006 vintage so likely not using Compositing for it's transparency etc.


The limpid clock display is an app icon so it uses whatever the WB uses for rendering its icons.


Oh interesting. Presumably it's using the WBAPPICONA_RenderHook like my AnimIcon program does. While your in that hook the workbench is locked, my tool just stamps a prerendered Icon using DrawIconState() but if Limpid Clock is doing someting more complex, that could trigger the "bug". Custom rendering is allowed so it needn't be using DrawIconState().
User avatar
broadblues
AmigaOS Core Developer
AmigaOS Core Developer
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:40 am
Location: Portsmouth, UK

PreviousNext

Return to General AmigaOS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron