AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install [SOLVED]

[danbeaver]

Here are the "drive speeds;" I used the Mediator DriveSpeed program since it ran under both OS's and it was easy to use. I believe the results are in bytes and not bits.

OS 4.1
USB Hard Drive 5.5 Meg/s (used a Seagate 320 Gb FreeGo on Deneb)
UWSCSI Hard drive 15.0 Meg/s (Quantum Atlas V 18.2 Gb 68-pin)
UWSCSI CF card 10.2 Meg/s (X233 speed CF card on UWSCSI->IDE[Acard]->CF adapter)
UWSCSI SCSI card reader 2.1 Meg/s (X233 speed CF card in SCSI 50-pin card reader)

OS 3.9
USB Hard Drive 6.0 Meg/s (used a Seagate 320 Gb FreeGo on Deneb)
UWSCSI Hard drive 29.0 Meg/s (Quantum Atlas V 18.2 Gb 68-pin)
UWSCSI CF card 25 Meg/s (X233 speed CF card on UWSCSI->IDE[Acard]->CF adapter)
UWSCSI SCSI card reader 2.7 Meg/s (X233 speed CF card in SCSI 50-pin card reader)

Hmm....

-Dan

[Calgor]

Very good speed comparisons! All are as I expected, except the SCSI card reader seems it may use the 5MB/s SCSI standard - I was hoping it would use Fast SCSI 2 as per the Blizzard SCSI Kit which is rated for up to 10MB/s. You could try changing its SCSI settings perhaps in the CSPPC boot menu for OS3.9 to see if anything can be done to make it faster at least under OS3.9. Otherwise, I think USB would offer more advantages aside from the PCMCIA mass storage slot. Seems only useful if USB goes haywire.

btw, ZorRAM 128MB uses 256MB Z3 address space anyway (observed by others' showconfig output) so you don't save anything by getting the smaller one. They may have done that to make the autoconfig board logic simpler so it is easier to add on the extra 128MB if and when required - but I didn't ask and don't really know. Also when used as Swap it takes up 256MB Z3 address space anyway same as memory in OS3.9, so you will not lose anything there. However, guessing it may be a factor if you use up approx 2GB total between real memory and swap space.

[danbeaver]

Thanks for that, Calgor!

I had seen the 256MB thing in ShowConfig and now I understand it; one buys a 256MB space in the Z3 bus, but only "pays" for 2/3rds of it. Well if I really needed the extra 128MB, I could have AmigaKit upgrade it.

Otherwise I don't think changing the SCSI settings will help speed, the best "I" can do is prevent booting:(

I solved one of my problems, accessing the SCSI Card reader; the individual cards need to be mounted: I told Media Toolbox to save me a RDB of each card, then using the A4000 Hardware document (Aminet -- A4KHard.lha) I changed the unit numbers in the mountlist accordingly (my reader is set as unit 3) to 003 for the SmartCard, 013 for the CF card slot, 023 for MemoryStick, 033 for the SD/MMC slot, ect.. Now I can mount each upon bootup or later in OS 4.1U4. Ah, there is a Santa after all. I can read from them, but I get an Error (-45) writing to them, well "Bad Santa." I also found the SCSI transfer rates you quoted with Syncronous and Fast Sychronous modes (Warren Block 1997). -- nifty little guide there.

The OS 4.1 supported hardware has a problem with USB devices; the ones it supports are no longer in production and highly valued I don't see even used ones for sale. If I had known this 3 years ago, I would have picked up a second Deneb.

-Dan
[EDIT: The "pays for 2/3rd of it" refers to the cost of a ZorRam 128 vs 256M ram card, ergo, I should have bought the 256 card since the memory is already allocated]

[Calgor]

Good work - could you please post your mountlist files for OS4.1 for the SCSI card reader in case anyone else wants to use it too.

I thought there was only 1 synchronous mode - either on or off? What are these Synchronous *and* Fast Synchronous modes and how do we set them to the HDD RDB? (I used CSPPC boot menu for Synchronous per SCSI ID, but that does not write to the HDD RDB which would be good so it is Synchronous by default, and that is only for OS3.9 I think too - is this why OS4.1 is slower than 30MB/s?)

[danbeaver]

Calgor, here is my mountlist (DosDrivers) and information on SCSI I found:

#Boot CF Card - 64MB in a CF-> PCMCIA Adapter DOS/07

Device = cybppc.device
Unit = 003
Flags = 0
Surfaces = 2
SectorsPerBlock = 2
BlocksPerTrack = 32
Reserved = 2
LowCyl = 32
HighCyl = 1999
Buffers = 600
BufMemType = 5
MaxTransfer = 0x1fe00
Mask = 0xfffffffe
DosType = 0x444f5307
Priority = 0
Stacksize = 4096
GlobVec = -1
FileSystem = l:FastFileSystem
#

#My OS 3.9 Partition - 4GB CF DOS/03

Device = cybppc.device
Unit = 013
Flags = 0
Surfaces = 5
SectorsPerBlock = 2
BlocksPerTrack = 252
Reserved = 2
LowCyl = 2
HighCyl = 6195
Buffers = 200
BufMemType = 0
MaxTransfer = 0x1fe00
Mask = 0x7ffffffe
DosType = 0x444f5303
Priority = 0
GlobVec = -1
FileSystem = L:FastFileSystem
#

#My SeaGate USB HDD - on Deneb DOS/07

Device = usbscsi.device
Unit = 1
Flags = 0
Surfaces = 19
SectorsPerBlock = 4
BlocksPerTrack = 2
Reserved = 2
LowCyl = 54
HighCyl = 16451116
Buffers = 500
BufMemType = 1
MaxTransfer = 0xfffe00
Mask = 0xfffffffe
DosType = 0x444f5307
GlobVec = -1
#

#My USB Thumb Drive - 2GB Generic Fat95

Device = usbscsi.device
Unit = 0
Flags = 0
Surfaces = 11
SectorsPerBlock = 4
BlocksPerTrack = 7
Reserved = 2
LowCyl = 27
HighCyl = 51066
Buffers = 60
BufMemType = 1
MaxTransfer = 0xffe0
Mask = 0xfffffffe
DosType = 0x46415401
GlobVec = -1
#

Now SCSI information:

Definitions (per A4000 Hardware Guide -- Warren Block [with some editing])

SCSI: This is the original standard, now also known as SCSI-1. The maximum
theoretical transfer rate is 5 megabytes per second, although most
combinations of drives and controllers do much less, usually less than
two megabytes per second. In asynchronous mode, each byte (8-bits)
transmitted must be acknowledged. Synchronous mode does not require
acknowledgement for every byte transmitted, which can mean improved
(~2X's) response time with most SCSI devices (see below).

SCSI-2: An extension of the SCSI command set. Most CD-ROM drives that are
double-speed or faster, are SCSI-2. Note that contrary to popular belief, this
doesn't go any faster than good old SCSI-1.

Fast SCSI-2: Here's where the speed was increased. Fast SCSI-2 has a maximum
transfer rate of 10 megabytes per second, synchronous. Hence, "FAST = Synchronous"
and "Wide = 16-bits." Again, these numbers are theoretical, and
anything more than a third of that should be considered excellent.

Wide SCSI, Differential SCSI, and SCSI-3: SCSI transfers data over an
8-bit wide data path. A variation called Wide SCSI uses a 16-bit wide data
path via an additional cable, potentially doubling transfer rates.
SCSI-3 is essentially "Fast Wide" SCSI-2 (or 4 times the speed) using
only one cable. Another variation is differential SCSI, which uses
differential signal cables to provide a total bus length of up to 25
meters (this is not used in the Amiga). Adapters are available to connect these
devices to normal SCSI controllers, though, so it theoretically is possible to
connect them to the Amiga. Therefore SCSI-3 is "synchronous transmission
of 16-bits of data over 2 cables." Ultrawide is the same using 1 cable,
as I understand it.

--
Asynchronous transfers mean that every single byte must be
acknowledged before the next can be transferred. Synchronous means that
the device sending data can drop a series of transfers onto the bus,
toggling REQ or ACK (as appropriate), and then sit back and wait for
the corresponding pulses to return from the other device.

Asynchronous transfers, involving much more waiting, are correspondingly
slower. 2-4 MB/sec are good values for Async transfers.

Synchronous transfer speeds are established during a negotiation between the
initiator and target, but devices are not required to use the full
speed they negotiate for. This speed represents the maximum burst rate
your device will use. Common values are 5 and 10 MB/sec.

"Stay close to the candles. The staircase... can be treacherous."

[danbeaver]

Hi!

The DriveSpeed numbers on the OS 4.1 sii3114ide.device are not good (using an IBM/Hitachi 82 Gb SATA Drive) were 3.2 Mb/s...

Sad

[danbeaver]

OK, this is how my Ami now sits:

A4000T (SoftWare Hut) with 400W AT replacement PS (just in case I needed the extra 150W), CS-PPC (SN DC50274, rev. 4 ) 233MHz 604e/ 50MHz 060 + 128M 60ns ram, cybppc.device for SCSI which has Quantum Atlas V 18.2GB (unit 0), White IDE-DVD-R/W 22X (NewEgg) on ACARD SCSI->IDE Unit 1 (A4000T.com), SCSI Multicard reader (A4000T.com ~ mech) - unit 3, ACard SCSI->IDE-> PC card slot (unit 4) -- non-hot swappable. There is the standard A4000 HD floppy drive and a non-standard CPU fan attached to the edge of power supply to blow air across the CS-PPC. THe IDE-to-PC card adapter is attached in back above the power supply with a small slot cut in the metal case. A powered small 4-port USB expander is mounted on top of the case and attached to the Deneb. Off the parallel port is attached an LPT2USB adapter (made in Germany, sold out of AZ in USA). With a fair amount of tweaking the USB ports can drive the 2 HP printers; with a huge amount of effort both printers can be used over my network in OS 4.1 only.

A4000T Slots: De-interlacer card in video slot (waiting for Indivision AGA 1200 Mk2), ZorRam 128M card (AmigaKit), and Deneb USB card (AmigaKit).

Mediator Slots: Mediator card, SB128 card (with internal hardwired Paula-out to AUX-in), Radeon 9200 256M video card (Elbox), "Spider" card (for use in OS 3.9), RTL8029AS card, and finally Generic Sii3114 SATA card (Amaz--.com) with 82 Gb SATA HDD (only for use under OS 4.1).

Available to substitute USB trinkets: USB wireless mouse, Turtle Beach "Amigo II" sound dongle, a plug-in 7-slot card reader (Amaz--.com), and a Trendnet TU2-ET100 ethernet dongle (NewEgg).

Believe it or not the system is relatively stable under both OS 3.9 and 4.1.

OS 4.1 can't 1) Use the "Spider" card, and 2) Can only read from cards in the SCSI card device. It can write to the USB card reader. OS 3.9 can use all of the above, but not the sii3114 SATA card and drive. I have an ESS solo 1 card (1938s) which, if it works, it is not supported in OS 3.9. The SCSI Card reader allows booting from any card under OS 3.9, and I use a small CF card with a high boot priority to boot into OS 4.1. Both OS's can boot from the IDE->CF card off the SCSI chain. I will, on the next gutting, switch out the Acard adapter on the DVD and use the internal A4000's. No, I can not load up the Deneb flash to allow USB booting, the system HATES this. And will not boot to OS 4.1 in any capacity or form (and has "issues" under 3.9); there may be an odd "mad bit" in there among the bytes and megabytes, but I can't score another USB solution at present; I prefer one that works as is for now.

I still love the SCSI Card reader; I can boot from it (in both OS's), back up to multiple cards without rebooting, boot from backups, and copy from CF card to CF card using a PCMCIA adapter. USB is great. The Deneb & Poseidon are amazing products, and in 2012 one absolutely needs this, yes even on a 20-year old piece of hardware (that is still being used). As an aside, how many people use 20-year old PC's and Mac's for productivity?

Comments?

-Dan

[Calgor]

Sounds similar to my experience. Only fly in the ointment is the Deneb not being utilised to its full potential.

That LPT2USB sounds interesting. Do you know what kind of printers it supports? The website is very vague. Does it require PCL or Postscript like this different one on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/LPT2USB-Parallel- ... B0015EP2JO

Or does it also work with for example mainstream Canon/Epson/HP inkjet printers which do not support PCL or PostScript? Which exact model printers have you used it with?

[danbeaver]

Hi again!

The LPT2USB simply changes the 25-pin Centronics I/O interface to USB; it is bi-directional and works exactly the same as a Centronics parallel interface. Other than conversion from parallel to serial and back, it is transparent to the computer and printer: the USB printer thinks it is connected to USB port on a computer, and the computer thinks it is connected to a Centronics supported printer. Ergo it works on any USB printer and any computer with a parallel port. I just happen to use it with an HP ColorLaser 2065dn and an HP PhotoSmart 309a; it should also work with Samsung laser printer that is directly attached to my office PC. One just needs a printer driver for that printer and use the parallel.device, the rest is done at the LPT2USB device; I just happened to have unreliable output using the usbparallel.device and hit-or-miss over my home network (mostly "miss" under OS 3.9. Oh, it's more costly through Amaz--.com than at lpt2usb.net.

You can find the PCB and parts list on the net by the builder as a kit form, it's just that my soldering skills are rusty.

Dan

[Calgor]

Can you please provide links to this LPT2USB as well as the build it yourself kit? As there are 2 different ones it seems.

ePaper LPT2USB XR0027: http://www.epapersign.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=11
AK-Nord LPT2USB: http://www.ak-nord.de/ak/product_info.p ... anguage=en

However, the one you mentioned as being sold out of AZ (that I could find) seems to be the Israeli ePaper one, not the German AK-Nord one.