Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
Would it be possible to get in the future versions of OS 4.x Classic an option to use ZorRAM boards as part of the Fast memory pool (and not just a SWAP disk)? Is this technically possible?! Yes, I know the memory on ZorRAM is much slower than the memory on CSPPC, but each of us could then decide whether to accept this handicap or not...
Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
A good question as apps still run out of memory even though there is plenty of Swap still available via the ZorRAM.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
The team proved ZorRAM was far too slow to be used as "fast" memory so that option won't be made available.Gregor wrote:Would it be possible to get in the future versions of OS 4.x Classic an option to use ZorRAM boards as part of the Fast memory pool (and not just a SWAP disk)? Is this technically possible?! Yes, I know the memory on ZorRAM is much slower than the memory on CSPPC, but each of us could then decide whether to accept this handicap or not...
ExecSG Team Lead
Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
Is it the same with the memory on e.g. Radeon 9200, when used with Mediator in classic Amigas? Elbox have on their page a statement that part of that static memory can be used as Fast memory (and that it is very fast), but does AmigaOS 4.1 support this option? (I do not have Mediator to test that myself).ssolie wrote: The team proved ZorRAM was far too slow to be used as "fast" memory so that option won't be made available.
- danbeaver
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Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
I know I have the least ability to answer this question, but I going to guess:
One, you hop off the CS-PPC board to the Zorro 3 bus. Two, you hop on the Mediator "bridge board." Three, you then get on the PCI bus. Four, you then hop up to the Radeon board and finally get to the RAM.
Or: One, you hop off the CS-PPC board to the Zorro 3 bus. You then get to an actual RAM board, and access the ram.
So, I'm guessing that if the Zorro 3 bus slows down access enough that the ZorRam is too slow for OS 4.1, then Radeon RAM access will be even slower. Mind you, Elbox has completely ignored the OS 4.1 platform. As I found out, the PCI card support uses Hyperion's own drivers (NOT ELBOX's), and includes support for cards not supported by Elbox. The best anyone has heard of is Elbox's attempt at OS 4.1, is their unreleased pci.library Version 10; and it is a kludge that will not work with the OS 4.1 drivers. As I understand it, the issue for Elbox is to re-do their DMA access to conform with the OS 4.1 specs. Another guess is that this involves a complete re-write of their software. Proper support "should" cross OS platforms as long as the hardware is constant with some (i.e., JIT from PPC to 68K) backward help. The compiler doesn't care what the hardware is, code is code (well not ASM).
Blast me if I'm off base, I said in other threads, I kinda quit the hardware/software aspect of things circa 1983, and now I'm just an "end-user."
Dan
One, you hop off the CS-PPC board to the Zorro 3 bus. Two, you hop on the Mediator "bridge board." Three, you then get on the PCI bus. Four, you then hop up to the Radeon board and finally get to the RAM.
Or: One, you hop off the CS-PPC board to the Zorro 3 bus. You then get to an actual RAM board, and access the ram.
So, I'm guessing that if the Zorro 3 bus slows down access enough that the ZorRam is too slow for OS 4.1, then Radeon RAM access will be even slower. Mind you, Elbox has completely ignored the OS 4.1 platform. As I found out, the PCI card support uses Hyperion's own drivers (NOT ELBOX's), and includes support for cards not supported by Elbox. The best anyone has heard of is Elbox's attempt at OS 4.1, is their unreleased pci.library Version 10; and it is a kludge that will not work with the OS 4.1 drivers. As I understand it, the issue for Elbox is to re-do their DMA access to conform with the OS 4.1 specs. Another guess is that this involves a complete re-write of their software. Proper support "should" cross OS platforms as long as the hardware is constant with some (i.e., JIT from PPC to 68K) backward help. The compiler doesn't care what the hardware is, code is code (well not ASM).
Blast me if I'm off base, I said in other threads, I kinda quit the hardware/software aspect of things circa 1983, and now I'm just an "end-user."
Dan
Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
@ Gregor
No, I do not believe there is an officially supported one. Elbox may have done something as mentioned by danbeaver, but it is not officially supported (if it exists, and then may cause problems).
@ danbeaver
Yes, logically one would think that going through the Mediator (which is connected via Zorro3 bus on big box mediators) would surely be an extra layer and therefore slower than ZorRAM. You can confirm this question yourself with bustest (in OS3.9). From memory the figures are in the same ballpark for throughput - but random access patterns etc may yield different results.
And as ZorRAM was deemed too slow, Mediator would likely likewise also be too slow (unless by some miracle its random access performance belies its throughput).
As to using Mediator graphics card RAM as Swap, I do not believe that is supported either.
No, I do not believe there is an officially supported one. Elbox may have done something as mentioned by danbeaver, but it is not officially supported (if it exists, and then may cause problems).
@ danbeaver
Yes, logically one would think that going through the Mediator (which is connected via Zorro3 bus on big box mediators) would surely be an extra layer and therefore slower than ZorRAM. You can confirm this question yourself with bustest (in OS3.9). From memory the figures are in the same ballpark for throughput - but random access patterns etc may yield different results.
And as ZorRAM was deemed too slow, Mediator would likely likewise also be too slow (unless by some miracle its random access performance belies its throughput).
As to using Mediator graphics card RAM as Swap, I do not believe that is supported either.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
- danbeaver
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Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
Hi again folks!
I have those Bus numbers per Calgor's recommendations from my A4000T, CS-ppc with 128MB 60ns RAM, + 16MB motherboard RAM + Radeon 256MB RAM on the Mediator. At the end are the ROM speed and the bus test under OS 4.1 (to be complete).
If you see an error in my addresses, let me know and I'll run them again
-Dan
ADDENDUM:
ShowConfig Output
I have those Bus numbers per Calgor's recommendations from my A4000T, CS-ppc with 128MB 60ns RAM, + 16MB motherboard RAM + Radeon 256MB RAM on the Mediator. At the end are the ROM speed and the bus test under OS 4.1 (to be complete).
Hidden Text - Click to Show :
-Dan
ADDENDUM:
ShowConfig Output
Hidden Text - Click to Show :
Last edited by danbeaver on Tue May 15, 2012 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
Well can't tell if there is anything wrong with some of your addresses as you did not supply the matching showconfig output But the speeds look to be in the right ballpark.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
- danbeaver
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Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
Please see addendum to my prior post.
Dan
Dan
Re: Option to use ZorRAM as Fast Memory?
Sorry, too many to check - you have some fancy showconfig output showing extra details (superfluous for the comparison). Also PCI card memory addresses are not displayed.
Many of them are correct, although I don't know why there is such a difference in the addresses of OS3.9 vs OS4.1 CSPPC fast RAM. I will trust you did it correctly as the speed numbers seem reasonable enough.
EDIT: Also, technically, I guess showconfig would be needed for both OS3.9 and 4.1 in case the autoconfig is done differently in expansion.library
The idea (as you know of course) is to see what memory address showconfig (and pciinfo) show that the card is utilising, and then run bustest within that address range.
Many of them are correct, although I don't know why there is such a difference in the addresses of OS3.9 vs OS4.1 CSPPC fast RAM. I will trust you did it correctly as the speed numbers seem reasonable enough.
EDIT: Also, technically, I guess showconfig would be needed for both OS3.9 and 4.1 in case the autoconfig is done differently in expansion.library
The idea (as you know of course) is to see what memory address showconfig (and pciinfo) show that the card is utilising, and then run bustest within that address range.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5