Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

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Calgor
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Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by Calgor »

I have this problem where my A4000T computer does not have enough Zorro 3 autoconfig address space to run my cards in. The Mediator and Zorram together use up a lot of the address space not leaving much room for other cards. I was not happy with randomly swapping cards to see why things would/would not work, so decided to systematically investigate further why my computer would not boot with Mediator + ZorRAM + Picasso IV all installed at once.

First, my understanding of the Zorro 3 address space:

My understanding originally from the Amiga 3000 documentation was that the Zorro 3 autoconfig address space was from $10000000 - $80000000, which would allow over 1.5GB of luxurious space to fulfill all my needs! See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Zorro_III

However in my system (and others using KS3.0/KS3.1/OS4.1; KS2.x unknown) it has been observed to be from $40000000 - $80000000. This leaves only 1GB of Zorro 3 autoconfig address space for the Zorro 3 cards to use.

I saw these notes in the changes from KS3.0 to KS3.1 (http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31chg.lha) to expansion.library up to v40.2:
- CPU Card space is now able to be more than 128Meg. (We can grab 3 * 256Meg more since we don't start Zorro-III until $40000000 anyway...) (40.1)
- CPU Card space test now also does mirror testing. (40.1)
This suggests that it is indeed supposed to start from $40000000 as per my observations (but also indicates more than 128MB can be used for the CPU card... which I thought was limited to 128MB by the CPU Slot???? - I do not know of any CPU card which uses this!)

How this affects my situation:

My current setup for OS4.1 Classic in my A4000T is:
Cyberstorm PPC 060/233 MHz
Cybervision PPC
Zorro Slots:
Mediator A3/4000T (Jumpers: Master CLOSED, Winsize CLOSED, Swap Config CLOSED)
<empty Zorro slot>
Deneb (PIO mode, firmware V11 with XSurf clockport)
ZorRAM 256MB
Picasso IV (Paloma+Concierto+Pablo) (jumper for Zorro 2 mode)
PCI Slots:
<empty PCI slot>
Elbox Radeon 256MB
Realtek 8139D 10/100 Network Card
<empty PCI slot>
<empty PCI Slot>
The showconfig output showing allocated memory addresses is:
PROCESSOR: 604e
EMULATED: CPU 68020/68881fpu
CUSTOM CHIPS: AA PAL Alice (id=$0023), AA Lisa (id=$00F8)
VERSION: Kickstart version 53.16, Exec version 53.16, Disk version 53.2
LEGACY RAM: Node type $A, Attributes $703 (CHIP), at $3000-$1FFFFF (~2.0 meg)
ZORRO BOARDS:
Board (ELBOX): Prod=2206/161($89E/$A1)
(@$40000000, size 512meg, subsize same)
Board (ELBOX): Prod=2206/33($89E/$21)
(@$60000000, size 16meg, subsize same)
Board (E3B, Michael Boehmer): Prod=3643/16($E3B/$10)
(@$61000000, size 16meg, subsize same)
Board + ROM (HD?) (E3B, Michael Boehmer): Prod=3643/19($E3B/$13) (@$E90000 64K)
Board (Individual Computers): Prod=4626/23($1212/$17) (@$EA0000 64K)
RAM (E3B, Michael Boehmer): Prod=3643/32($E3B/$20)
(@$70000000, size 256meg, subsize autosized Mem)
Board (Village Tronic): Prod=2167/21($877/$15) (@$200000 2meg)
Board (Village Tronic): Prod=2167/22($877/$16) (@$400000 2meg)
Board + ROM (HD?) (Village Tronic): Prod=2167/23($877/$17) (@$EC0000 128K)
Board (phase 5): Prod=8512/101($2140/$65) (@$FFFE0000 64K)
Board (phase 5): Prod=8512/101($2140/$65) (@$FFFA0000 64K)
Board (phase 5): Prod=8512/101($2140/$65) (@$FFFC0000 128K)
Board (phase 5): Prod=8512/101($2140/$65)
(@$E0000000, size RESERVED, subsize same)
Board (phase 5): Prod=8512/101($2140/$65)
(@$E0800000, size RESERVED, subsize same)
Board (phase 5): Prod=8512/101($2140/$65) (@$EF000000 128K)
PCI BOARDS:
Bus Device Funct. Manuf. Product Status
0x00 0x01 0x00 0x1002 0x5C63 working
0x00 0x02 0x00 0x11EC 0x8139 working
From this it can be seen that the full memory from $40000000 - $80000000 has been used, and the memory is allocated in order from the bottom slot (Mediator from ELBOX) to the top slot (ZorRAM from E3B as Picasso IV in the topmost slot is forced into Zorro 2 mode).

If I did not put the Picasso IV into Zorro 2 mode, then the computer would not boot at all. Special thanks to DarrenHD for helping me out with tips on how to get it working and debug logs etc. I also learned that I can predict when the computer will or will not work depending on which cards are in the machine and in which slots without even putting them in to test.

You will notice that for some reason the ZorRAM instead of using the memory space directly after the Deneb ($61000000 + $01000000 = $62000000) instead jumps to $70000000 thereby wasting 240MB of Zorro 3 address space! The DKB3128 also does this too from observing showconfig outputs available on the internet. Because the ZorRAM is using $70000000 - $80000000, any card inserted in the slot after the ZorRAM, like I did with the Picasso IV, will then cause that last card to attempt to allocate beyond $80000000 thereby causing my computer not to boot. This is why my computer then worked when I forced the Picasso IV into Zorro 2 mode.

If I were to put a card before the ZorRAM that would work as it would fit into the unused $62000000 - $70000000 memory space as long as it was not a large card like another ZorRAM.

I also will note that AmigaKit's example of 1GB in an Amiga was only using 4 ZorRAMs in 4 Zorro Slots (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/ima ... -4060t.jpg), and I predict that 5 ZorRAMs in the A4000T will fail due to lack of Zorro 3 autoconfig memory address range.

Here is what I found the Mediator jumper settings do:
Winsize: CLOSED -> 512MB allocated, needed for Radeon 256MB in OS4.1 but not in OS3.9; OPEN -> 256MB allocated
Swap Config: CLOSED -> Swaps the 2 memory allocations for the Mediator putting 256MB first followed by 16MB; OPEN -> Opposite allocation. Wastes address space from $41000000 - $50000000 so no idea why one would want this jumper open in the A4000T, could be different order in other Mediators?

So if you have read this far, to the questions, so that I can use my Picasso IV in Zorro 3 mode in OS4.1:
1. Is it possible to increase the Zorro 3 address space, for example by altering expansion.library? (Could instead start from $10000000?)
2. What does Amiga OS4.1 use the Zorro 3 address range $10000000-$40000000 for?
3. Why does ZorRAM and DKB3128 leave a gap in the address space? (is it due to the card or the kickstart?)
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by DarrenHD »

Hi Calgor, hopefully one of the programmers can weigh in on your questions. From my observations it's best to put the ZorRAM (if you have one) in the very top zorro slot with other Zorro Cards (like a Deneb) below it.

In my Amiga 4000T I have:

Mediator with Ess Solo-1, Radeon 256MB, RTL 8029 and RTL 8139 (for OS3.9) in that order.

Then I have a Deneb and a ZorRAM, with the ZorRAM being in the Zorro slot closest to the cyberstorm ppc.

Seems to work ok. It is a 128MB ZorRAM though.

I don't have a fully loaded Picasso IV to test.
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by Calgor »

Is anyone from Hyperion able to shed any light on my 3 questions?

I may have found the answer to number 3 from the RKRM Hardware Manual (1989) in the Section on AutoConfig:

"The AUTOCONFIG spec requires that boards be configured on boundaries that match their space requirements."
It then goes on to list examples for 1MB boards and 4MB boards in Zorro 2.

But this is for Zorro 2. The later OS2.x RKRM I could not find any mention of this for Zorro 3 or even Zorro 2.
And it also does not say whether it is the OS (i.e. expansion.library) or the card that can determine this.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by l3rd »

Try to remove the Radeon, it should solve your problem.
Amiga 4000: CSPPC 604e@180/060@50 / 146MB RAM / Mediator PCI 4000D
  • Zorro: Picasso IV (Concierto/Paloma/Pablo) / Ariadne II / VLab Motion
    PCI: 3dfx VooDoo5 5500 64MB / Realtek 8029 / Terratec ESS Solo-1
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by Calgor »

Thanks about removing the Radeon but removing a card is not the problem and will lose functionality - it is getting all the cards to run together optimally in the limited address space.

I was hoping someone from Hyperion could shed some light on my listed questions as they are the only ones who know how their OS4.X autoconfig fully works.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by nexus »

Calgor wrote: I was hoping someone from Hyperion could shed some light on my listed questions as they are the only ones who know how their OS4.X autoconfig fully works.
Very informative analysis of autoconfig from your side! Thanks for that, and it actually deserves an answer :) Unfortunately I can't give one (concerning your questions), so I hope, there *is* indeed someone who knows the answers to your 3 questions (and writes them down here) ! :)
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by l3rd »

I know that removing the Radeon is not the best solution...
However you must consider that some 256MB Radeons are allocating more than 512MB when installed.

Can you run Ranger and check the PCI info of Radeon Card?
I like to see the memory ranges.
Amiga 4000: CSPPC 604e@180/060@50 / 146MB RAM / Mediator PCI 4000D
  • Zorro: Picasso IV (Concierto/Paloma/Pablo) / Ariadne II / VLab Motion
    PCI: 3dfx VooDoo5 5500 64MB / Realtek 8029 / Terratec ESS Solo-1
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by Calgor »

@ l3rd

Will have to get back to you.

I expect the Radeon 256MB will have some of its memory (at least 256MB) allocated in the Mediator 512MB window Z3 allocation for its RAM, and also in the Mediator 16MB Z3 allocation for its I/O, which are shown in my posts above for the Zorro component.

Will be good to provide this information for the PCI component for completeness and to confirm.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by Calgor »

As promised (after a delay), the information from Ranger in OS4.1 for the memory range used by the PCI devices. As might be expected, they use the memory which is a subset of that allocated to the Mediator in showconfig.

Code: Select all

00.01.00 VGA Controller (Radeon 256MB):
# Base  Physical Size Flags
0 0x40000000 0x40000000 268435456 PreFetch Mem
1 0x0000ff00 0x0000ff00 256       I/O
0x50000000 0x50000000 65536     Mem

00.02.00 Ethernet Controller (Now Realtek 8029AS instead of Realtek 8139D):
# Base  Physical Size Flags
0 0x0000fee0 0x0000fee0 32        I/O
Revision to showconfig for different network card:

Code: Select all

PCI BOARDS:
Bus     Device  Funct.  Manuf.  Product Status
0x00    0x01    0x00    0x1002  0x5C63  working
0x00    0x02    0x00    0x10EC  0x8029  working
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: Way to increase Zorro 3 autoconfig address space?

Post by Hanzu »

Calgor wrote: If I did not put the Picasso IV into Zorro 2 mode, then the computer would not boot at all.
I also tried to make Mediator with Radeon 9250 256MB, ZorRAM 256MB, Ariadne II and Picasso IV to work together but it brought me so servere hardware problems which had nothing to do with 4.1 since they happened at the very moment I turned on power switch.

Even though I removed Radeon (and Terratec 512i + Realtek 8139D that I bought for OS 3.9 use) from Mediator. Picasso IV + any of my zorro cards plugged in simultaneously resulted no boot.

Picasso IV + Ariadne II = yellow screen after power on
Picasso IV + ZorRAM 256MB = Early Startup Menu shows automaticallly after power on and shows false alarm about brand new ZorRAM beeing Defective!?
Ariadne II + ZorRAM 256MB = Amiga works normally and ZorRAM shows RAM in OS 3.9 and SWAP in OS 4.1.

So I kind of gave up trying to use Picasso IV and at first I thought I had bought faulty Picasso IV, but then I plugged Picasso IV in Commodore A4000 Daughterboard instead of Mediator and realized it shows up in Early Startup Menu and also gives classical insert disk picture of Kickstart 3.1.

With all the trouble my Picasso IV causes me I need to ask you who have it too that is there any reason keeping that card if I have Radeon 9250 doing the same job and also Indivision AGA MK II for better picture or is there something like support for some old games where Picasso IV would prove its worth for me?
3. Why does ZorRAM and DKB3128 leave a gap in the address space? (is it due to the card or the kickstart?)
How big is this gap when talking in MB or kb? I mean could it be reserved for something like Maprom function?
A4000cr Rev D+CSPPC 233/66MHz 060+16MB 50ns+128MB 60ns+Plextor SCSI-3 CDRW+Adaptec SCSI to SATA adapter+OCZ Vertex 2 SSD 90GB+Mediator 4000 MK II+Radeon 9250 256MB +RTL8029+Terratec TTSOLO1-SL VER1.2+ZorRAM 256MB+DF0:-DF3:+Catweasel MK2 Anniversary+Indivision AGA MK II+OS3.9 & OS 4.1. RTL8139D & Terratec TT801-QD for OS3.9 only
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