CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

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CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby Gregor » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:38 pm

Does anyone here use CyberVision64 with OS 4.1? Have you been able to create valid 800x600 and 1280x1024 screenmodes for it? For some unknown reason, screenmodes with those resolutions are always 'broken' in my machine (the test screens created by 'ScreenMode' prefs are more or less messy) if I use OS4.1. The frequences used are definitely within the limits of my monitors (tested two). And this is not a hardware problem as with OS3.5 there is absolutely no problem with the same resolutions, frequences and hardware (Cybervision64 and monitor).

For comparison, 320x256 and 1024x768 are ok, both with OS 4.1 and 3.5.

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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby danbeaver » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:45 am

I'm not currently using a CV64, but I set one up in the past for an A4000D and I believe I had to go through Picasso96 to set up the modes (OS 4.1 has them off by a bit): These are based on my monitor, so your values will be different
800X600 @ 60Hz would pixel clock at 38.02 MHz;
For the Picasso96, this gives:
Frame HSize~1032, Frame VSize~640
Border H~0, V~0
Position H~32, V~13
Sync H~44, V~10
HSync(+), VSync(+)
Freq H~38 kHz, V~57 Hz

1280X1024 won't work on my monitor, but the web site [http://www.arachnoid.com/modelines/index.html] gives:
1280x1024 @ 60.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 63.60 kHz; pclk: 108.88 MHz, NON-Interlaced
This gives (an untested setting):
Frame HSize~1600, Frame VSize~1126
Border H~0, V~0
Position H~16, V~2
Sync H~64, V~8
HSync(-), VSync(+)
Freq H~68 kHz, V~60 Hz

I have several P96 settings for my current card+Monitor that don't work with "out of the box" OS4.1 settings.

Hope this helps. You may want to reference the AmiBay sticky: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=31230 -- He used my reference and gave me no credit :(
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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby Gregor » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:15 am

danbeaver wrote:I'm not currently using a CV64, but I set one up in the past for an A4000D and I believe I had to go through Picasso96 to set up the modes (OS 4.1 has them off by a bit): These are based on my monitor, so your values will be different
800X600 @ 60Hz would pixel clock at 38.02 MHz;
For the Picasso96, this gives:
Frame HSize~1032, Frame VSize~640
Border H~0, V~0
Position H~32, V~13
Sync H~44, V~10
HSync(+), VSync(+)
Freq H~38 kHz, V~57 Hz

1280X1024 won't work on my monitor, but the web site [http://www.arachnoid.com/modelines/index.html] gives:
1280x1024 @ 60.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 63.60 kHz; pclk: 108.88 MHz, NON-Interlaced
This gives (an untested setting):
Frame HSize~1600, Frame VSize~1126
Border H~0, V~0
Position H~16, V~2
Sync H~64, V~8
HSync(-), VSync(+)
Freq H~68 kHz, V~60 Hz

I have several P96 settings for my current card+Monitor that don't work with "out of the box" OS4.1 settings.

Hope this helps. You may want to reference the AmiBay sticky: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=31230 -- He used my reference and gave me no credit :(


...Picasso96? Now I'm totally out..?-) I thought that those monitor definition files (including CybeVision64) in DEVS:Monitors are already using that system. What I should do, where and with what, to transfer those sample definitions you gave above, to some mysterious screenmodes? Can you give a step-by-step example?

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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby danbeaver » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:27 pm

The Picasso96 program is in your Prefs directory, but it is not intuitive; there are instructions on the web (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bt149mo74c2c ... 0guide.pdf) to download that show how to drop items and set up new modes.

Steps:
1) Open Picasso96mode
2) Right click menu and select Attach Setting To and the select your board (Cybervision64); a new entry will show up under Settings. Make sure it is the one highlighted.
3) Grab the left-most box (the box with an arrow coming out) and drag to the Resolution lister area. A new resolution (defaults to 640X480).
4) Edit the settings so they reflect 880 X 600 and hit RETURN after each change (or they won't stick). The newly listed resolution will change to what you entered.
5) Grab the left-most box again (it means New Item) and drag it now to the Mode lister area. A new mode with defaults will show up. These may work depending on your monitor; if not, then edit the color-depth (256, 16-bit (High Color), or 24-bit (True Color)); your Cybervision will only support loer colors at higher resolutions due to to the 4 MB ram on board. Use the TEST button to see if your monitor will sync at the default settings; if it syncs, but is not "right" then use the EDIT button to move the test pattern around. Once you like it and exit the EDIT screen, select USE button and then save the setting. A reboot is necessary at this point.
6) If all has gone well, then open ScreenMode in the Prefs directory and select the new resolution. P96 hand-made modes show up as different from the Default OS4.1 screen modes.

See also: http://web.archive.org/web/200202082145 ... ics3.shtml <-- a step-by-step guide
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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby Gregor » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:51 pm

danbeaver wrote:The Picasso96 program is in your Prefs directory, but it is not intuitive; there are instructions on the web (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bt149mo74c2c ... 0guide.pdf) to download that show how to drop items and set up new modes.

Steps:
1) Open Picasso96mode


Thanks! I found at least the program... But when I open it, there is a requester saying: "Could not find any modes!" Is this normal? Only 'ok' to be chosen there.

2) Right click menu and select Attach Setting To and the select your board (Cybervision64); a new entry will show up under Settings. Make sure it is the one highlighted.


After I have selected Cybervision64 from the menu, just a text appears below that scrollbar box (where the new entry should have been shown up but did not) saying: "Please add a setting first!" And practically all input areas stay ghosted, not much to add anywhere. So, there is a problem...?

I tried also to save from the menu a 'blank' settings file, but opening it did not change anything.

(In moments like this I wish I could afford a X1000 - and leave the classic machines where they really belong, that is, to the OS3.x world ;-)).

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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby danbeaver » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:04 pm

It normally opens with an unattached settings of 640x480, but you can drop the "new" box (the one on the far left) onto the settings area. Then attach a board, and then drop a second new settings on it. Then go from there. Use the references as guides to this procedure.

My A4000T under OS 4.1 behaves exactly like my X1000 in this regard; if I want a new setting like 320x200 on my Radeon 9200 card on my A4000T or my Radeon HD 6950 card in my X1000, I go through the same steps. The hard part is getting the monitor to sync when you are guessing at the settings, that's where the ModeLine calculator can come to the cryptic rescue.

As I said, the program is not intuitive, but I learned to use it without the guides referenced above; ergo, it can't be all that difficult. At least you don't have to go through the CLI to configure it; but if you want a real electrical engineer's challenge then try to use the PVS program that comes with the P96 full install!
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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby Gregor » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:35 pm

danbeaver wrote:It normally opens with an unattached settings of 640x480, but you can drop the "new" box (the one on the far left) onto the settings area. Then attach a board, and then drop a second new settings on it. Then go from there. Use the references as guides to this procedure.


Thanks alot! Now I got the program itself to work... So simple as soon as you know it :-).

My A4000T under OS 4.1 behaves exactly like my X1000 in this regard; if I want a new setting like 320x200 on my Radeon 9200 card on my A4000T or my Radeon HD 6950 card in my X1000, I go through the same steps. The hard part is getting the monitor to sync when you are guessing at the settings, that's where the ModeLine calculator can come to the cryptic rescue.


I tried to create the most common resolutions (from320x256 to 1280x1024), but only the 320x256 and 1024x768 were in sync (as it was also with the 'Amiga' modes). The samples you gave in your first message did not sync either. I have no idea how to get those work as the trial and error method seems to be hopeless, there are too many variables... And I do not quite understand how the output from the ModeLine calculator is translated to the Picasso96 language.

E.g. how this is interpreted (the middle part of second line is cryptic):
# 800x600 @ 70.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 45.36 kHz; pclk: 49.35 MHz
Modeline "800x600_70.00" 49.35 800 840 928 1088 600 601 604 648 -HSync +Vsync

I had a look at the CGXMode, which is used to create screenmodes for OS3.x. It is peculiar that it has no sync problmes, the modes seem to be automatically in sync, at least if you start with the examples (like VESA) shown there. Why is it so difficult for P96? And isn't there any way to 'translate' the parameters from CGXMode to P96? They are not identical, if I understand right...

Regards,

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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby danbeaver » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:35 pm

I gave the translation for 800x600 from the ModeLine calculation (an estimate not taking into account the actual graphic card and monitor) to a working (on my system A4000D/T, several different graphic cards and my Dell ST2310L monitor) for the P96 program. The settings to sync for a given resolution, really come down to the pixel clock leaving the interlace and stuff "unchecked," with the other values decided as you edit the screen to give a centered picture. One can find a lot more on the ModeLine settings, their calculations, and how they interact on a mathematical/electrical level on the web; however, having majored in Chemistry (and not Electrical Engineering) with a double minor in Computer Science and Cinema, I am left in a educational void.

Since I have never used the CybergraphX program (although a V4 CD came with my CyberVision PPC), I cannot explain the difference. If it were me, I would do a hex read of the CGX monitor settings looking for the pixel clock value that works for your OS3.9 system. I have found that some modes simply do not work for me and use other resolutions; remember 4 MB on a graphics card is a 20 year-old amount when things really were limited; a 8 MB CVPPC and especially a Voodoo3 will do almost everything in terms of resolution.

As an aside, always use 60 Hz in your calculations, as these are what the standard Amiga screenmodes (and it seems most monitors) use, in the ModeLine equation. Grab that pixel clock (pClk) frequency and when you find the number that syncs, use edit to adjust it and the other parameters.

And remember that my advise is free because I have no idea what I am doing :-(

I am sure there are P96 monitor guru's out there, but it is unlikely they read posts in this forum; try the General Questions for OS 4.1 as P96 is used across the spectrum, and don't forget the rest of the Web. I am lazy and the above references are the two that came up the quickest.
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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby Gregor » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:33 pm

I did some further testing with different CV64 screen resolutions in Picasso96Mode. And I came to a strange conclusion...

Here is a list of resolutions which were 'broken' (the test picture is recognizable but distorted: the color areas irregular and graphical patterns mixed):
640x400, 640x480, 640x512, 800x600, 1152x900 and 1280x1024

Whatever changes I made to the parameters in Picasso96Mode, I could not get any screenmode with these resolution to show the test picture 'unbroken'!

Then there were resolutions, which were ok, or 'unbroken' from the beginning, with the default parameters:
320x200, 320x256, 1024x768 and 1120x882

And this time, whatever changes I made to the parameters, I could not get ANY of these modes to show the test picture 'broken' (but still recognisable), similar to the previous group!

If I increased or decreased some of the parameters far enough, I could get the test picture to dissappear totally, with only an even color pattern on screen, devided in two block by 1-colored zone (independent of which was the resolution, or to which of the groups above it belonged).

So my conclusion is, some of these resolutions are, at least in this case (CyberVision64) broken "by definition" and some are unbroken, and they cannot be converted with the parameters in Picasso96Mode.

Could anyone from HYPERION comment this? Is there a known reason for all this? (And I would still like to remind that with CGXmode and OS3.x there is no problems with any of these resolutions, which suggests that the problem is not in the CV64 Board itself, or in the monitor used)

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Re: CyberVision64, screenmode problem with OS4.1

Postby Rotzloeffel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:11 pm

Maybe you could try to load an picasso96Settings-file and use Standard VESA settings, which should work. They do for me......

so attach your board and load the Settings... this shoul give you all you need

P96_VESA.LHA
Standard VESA Settings for Picasso 96
(1.05 KiB) Downloaded 244 times
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