AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install [SOLVED]

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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby alekc » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:45 pm

Hi!

danbeaver wrote:Funny you should ask: I received my RTL8029AS NIC card yesterday and it works fine (after some "tweaking") under OS 4.1 and RoadShow. However, in OS 3.9 It allows me to see my LAN using Miami_DX and AmiTCP 3.? but not the internet; bummer. I'm working on this issue.


Check out your DNS setting - are you using DHCP or static IP/DNS assignment?

danbeaver wrote:To be honest I use a cloned NEC USB "spider" card I bought for $15 and 3.21 spider.device; however I did pay the ~$93 + $39 shipping for a true-blue Elbox NEC spider card with device version 3.22; I like to pay back the folks who took their time for use developing the card (BUT $39 for shipping that took over 2 weeks, please...). I would like to point out that Elbox provides NO support for this high cost, just unanswered emails.


I'm not in position to defend or blame Elbox but just keep in mind that they are doing something else for living as a company and supporting Amiga is their choice. I'm glad they are still on the market. Secondly have you registered your Elbox products and if so have you received confirmation email? I guess they might not answer emails from unregistered customers. Also sometimes it takes more than email to get reply from them. They always answered all my emails after registration.
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby danbeaver » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:31 pm

AlekC, glad to have your input!

Yes, I have tried using DHCP (which works beautifully with the usbasixeth.device), but both DHCP and static addressing fail to get to the internet using the RTL8029 device in Mediator (under OS 3.9); and both AmiTCP and Miami_DX act the same. I admit that I have a poor understanding of networking having only programmed from the years 1974 to 1986, and then in Fortran, ML, and Basic (C64). So anything else is a black hole with me.

On the Elbox side, not only did I register (sending scans of the software and hardware), I bought all of my Elbox stuff (except the NEC Clone--private seller, and the RTL8139 -- AmigaKit) directly from Elbox. They were happy to sell me the stuff, even in the middle of the night (taking up their time with the credit card issues), and happy to send me an email with the (3.22)spider driver, but once I started to to ask questions about Radeon crashing when opening windows, and the NIC not responding consistently, they just quit responding to my emails. I never mentioned I bought their spider card just to have a bought (not stolen) copy of their hardware & software. To be honest, Amigakit did the same thing when I asked questions about network printing using the RTL8139 card, EasyNet, and lpr.device issues -- I just closed the ticket when no response came after a week or more. In fact Amigakit took 2 months to get back to me to sort out my networking problems using their NIC card and their EasyNet software. I feel that It is as if I'm too stupid for those companies to waste their time on me. IF there was a "pay for support" option, I would; in fact I have.

-Dan
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby Calgor » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:59 am

@danbeaver

I still think there is a difference in your software config compared with mine (unless maybe your Mediator board is older than mine).

But it would help to be more systematic, like at the start of this thread you said you tried everthing and could not get OS4.x to work ;)

Easiest to simulate my setup when I got it working would be to:
1. Empty Deneb ROM contents and set it to update on every reboot and flash it. Then don't touch the Deneb ROM contents until you get it working Online in Z3PIO mode.
2. Insert in your A4000T only the Deneb (with Z2 jumper unset) in any slot except inline with video slot along with the Mediator and Radeon 256MB in recommended slot 1 away from bus card, your floppy drive(s), CSPPC, CSPPC UW Hard disk, CDROM, motherboard RAM. Set all 3 Mediator jumpers CLOSED.
3. From there Install from scratch on an empty SFS1 partition, on a hard disk on your CSPPC UWSCSI, Update 2 from CD followed by Updates 3 and 4. Then install Poseidon v4.4 (do not load input.device in startup-sequence when it asks, but yes to load PsdStackLoader) and Luciferin latest version.
4. Load up Trident prefs, add denebpiousb.device, then click Save to create a new ENVARC:PsdStackLoader
5. Reboot so that it will attempt to load ENVARC:PsdStackLoader
6. Load up Trident prefs, and check the status

If you cannot get the Deneb to go online from here in Z3PIO mode, then report the exact error message from the Poseidon GUI when you click on the Online button.

Not saying it will work (as your hardware versions may not be identical to mine, but AFAIK all A4000T are the same apart from floppy cables/floppy drives, and you have updated your DENEB to V11, but your CSPPC may have different firmware - mine is v44.67), but it will give you a consistent base to test from. Of course if you have had enough trying, no need to try it. :)
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby danbeaver » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:48 am

Hi there Calgor! Thanks for the reply.

I bought my Mediator 3000/4000T directly from Elbox around August last year, and (guessing from their software dates) it should be a recent hardware product. I gutted Ami and re-flashed V11 in to the Deneb and it now uses PIO transfer in Z3 mode -- don't even go there, I mean 3 different outcomes from 3 identical updates? Oh, the prior error messages were all the same, "... device failed to open error (-1)." It (OS 4.1) still does NOT like ROM modules to be loaded, but I don't care. The firmware for the CS-PPC is V44.67 (I had used 44.69 initially but went back to the original "last public release").

Solved my networking problems under OS 3.9 using (EasyNet) which means AmiTCP V3.0b and no lpr.device support, but I USB'd my HP PhotoSmart Premium (a309) to the LPR2USB port and I now have color output; under OS 4.1 I can shoot over my intranet to my HP 2065dn laser printer. MiamiDx never got me to the Internet using the RTL8029 as it did with the 8139.

As an aside, I printed out the mostly "Official Hardware Compatibility List" and carefully read (between the lines); support for the Mediator uses none of their software and, hence, the hardware list is independent of Elbox's -- yes this a Homer Simpson "duh" moment where I should be dope-slapped upside my head. Ergo, OS 4.1 lists sound and SATA cards not on Elbox's web site. A careful search of the Kickstart files reveals this: the ESS-1 Solo sound card and the Sil3114 SATA card. The solo model (1969) seems impossible to find (although I hardwired Paula's output to the AUX input SB128 and have good, not audiophile great, results; The 1938 EES-1 card has only one user to say that model works, but I just don't care that much to track one down. I found that Amaz??.com has Sil3114 based SATA 4 port PCI card made by "Monoprice" ID: 2667 for ~7 + ~5 shipping, or about 12 cubic-feet or something to my front door; certain other places over the pond have it for around ~30 cubic-feet or something before customs and such.

I want to admit that I now regret what I said about OS 4.1; now that it is working, I find it a superior product for modern internet use. The more I use 4.1, the more respect I have for it; although the structure is UNIX/Linux in orientation, it has the Amiga forgiving nature and understandability; there is a deft quality to the programming and a common sense to it that makes bold and rational choices, not brute force. I have dug deeper (and read between the Hex lines) to find out a few facts: The Bootloader.doc is in the DOC/kernel directory (not in the DOC/C directory), the Bootloader command does not mention RADMEM, but instead mentions PUBMEM. My attempts at using RADMEM failed because it existed elsewhere (or in a a bootloader of yore; but then it does have PUBMEM, which I have used with unknown results -- it doesn't matter what number I use; in fact, what does PUBMEM mean? We need a manual folks. Some people still read. Not me, I listen to audiobooks. To anyone reading this thread who has a negative opinion of OS 4.1 for Classic's, delve deep, you'll find some good and intelligent choices in the system. I now wonder what the experience would be like on a faster machine, but I'll have to wait a bit to find that out.-Dan
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby Calgor » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:51 am

@ danbeaver

Great so all working apart from loading modules into Deneb - now different Denebs I am not sure if there are any hardware differences (at least your firmware is latest).
3 different results from 3 different attempts - sorry but something was different each time :P

When you loaded modules into the Deneb, did you make sure to exclude input.device??? If so, then not sure I can suggest anything else unless I go around and install it on your actual machine :)

Looks like you finally found the truth in OS4.1 compared with OS3.9. Yes it is faster for modern stuff like web browsing (esp if you use the same programs). Just be careful as some 68k apps crash that are not fully compatible - for that you would need to use them for a while to find out. If more programs were included in the default install it would be more usable as-is (same goes for all OS4 installations).

Also I found that ZorRAM is better than using CSPPC UWSCSI for the Swap, as I notice more stuttering in Shell with CSPPC (looks like latency is more important than throughput). So the default setup in OS4 to use ZorRAM first before UWSCSI if you have both seems the right way to go. BUT - maybe the results would be different with a memory card as the Swap drive on CSPPC. I leave that for you as an exercise ;)
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby danbeaver » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:10 am

Calgor, thanks for the quick reply!

As for the Deneb, I used only the A1000 Jingle to test with, and it caused OS 4.1 not to boot. I didn't try anything else and just emptied the flash ROM, said a prayer and moved along. I saw the same thing you did with the ZorRam -- OS 4.1 fluidly switches over around 2 to 3 Megs and allocates ZorRam to keep the "working ram" above this amount; I can't even say I noticed a lag until the Hard Drive SWAP partition kicks in (my ZorRam is 128M). There are some memory hogs out there; "Jack" for example as well as OWB and Netsurf were not written with the poor, little Classic Amiga's CS-PPC 128M in mind. Another reason to ponder a faster hardware platform that has memory in the Gigabyte, not megabyte range. I also wonder if the PCI SATA interface is any faster than the UWSCSI. I've not read any actual throughput numbers for comparison; but for a paltry few cubic-feet of something I could find out using an older (< 2 TB) drive.

I shall look into it.

-Dan
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby Calgor » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:23 pm

I didn't try the A1000Jingle - perhaps that is incompatible with OS4.1? (although doubtful but hey). Remember not all 68k code is compatible with OS4.1. I did suggest the install steps to try with the Deneb which matched what I use.

If you want to have nice sound with less CPU use might I suggest the TerraTec Solo1-N. I have v1.2 PCB, but v1.1 PCB has also been reported to work. There are many Solo1 soundcards out there, and not 100% work. There are also TerraTec soundcards with other slightly different model numbers, not sure if those will also work (probably, but you take the risk). TerraTec being a brand name may also have better build quality, at least mine looks just fine.
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby danbeaver » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:29 pm

Thanks again Calgor for the rapid reply!

The few seconds (if any) I would gain in loading up the flash ROM of the Deneb is not worth the trial-and-error time wasted when, after all, all I wanted was USB access.

I "scoped out" the TerraTec card, and the pickings were few in the cheap range; I did pick up a TerraTec 512i off A-Bay for 40 cubic-feet of something for use under OS 3.9. But I am NOT the guy who walks into a room and says, "Your speakers are out of phase!" I may give a search or two late at night in the future, but I can get good results from USB sound dongle if thats the route I wanted to go. I did look briefly for a Subway USB device since E3B lists them as still available; yeah, only if you work for E3B. Even still, I would have to put back in my X-surf card for just it's clock port, and I'd rather not.

If wishes came true:
It would still be nice to get Mech's SCSI card reader (http://www.A4000T.com) working under OS 4.1. Hot swapable boot devices and storage is nice. I've backed up 16 Gb of hard drive to a 16 Gb SD card (under OS 3.9).
Turboprint's drivers are basically a configuration file, that I've played with to see if I could make a real driver for my HP ColorLaser 2064dn, but I can't find any instructions. Sometimes trial-and-error doesn't get you there.
The Classics's OS 4.1 is begging for a REAL manual, not a FAQ.
There is a great Samba for Idiots Amiga site, but they don't have a "Troubleshooting" section for when it fails (yeah, Amiga Explorer does not get around the problem I have either).
There should be more information on the PCI SATA card based on the Sil3112/Sil3114 chipset, at least in regards to speed; is it faster then the 30 Meg/s I get with UW SCSI? It's SATA 1 (150M/s) but those are not real numbers).
I read Cyborg's comment thread and it sounds like he was interested in providing a RTL8139 device driver, that would be nice.
I use a SCSI->IDE card to IDE -> CF which gives me 1) Convenience of plug-and-play, 2) Ease of adding storeage, and 3) Ease of backup, but it is not hot-swapable. Speed is 22 Megs/s, which is quite good.
It would be "Cool" to have a Pre-compiler for 68K programs to PPC, as JIT has to have situations were it can't just stop and say, "Whoa partner that ain't right."
Wouldn't it be nice if the Sonnet Crescendo/7200 G3 PCI card (still available for 30 cubic-feet for a 500MHz G3 directly from them) could plug into a PCI slot and add some speed? The card has 3 slots for up to 384Mg of memory. It's set at 5V, at least it want 5V Mac memory which is pretty cheap.
I would like to have "PureBasic" make native PPC programs. It is now a free download and a good replacement for True Basic.

Well, there ought to be a Santa Clause too.

What are your thoughts?

-Dan
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby Calgor » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:11 pm

I don't think a PCI SATA card will beat the UWSCSI for raw pace as that is limited by the slower in comparison Zorro3 bandwidth - you can try the bustest command off aminet on the Mediator's memory address range of your Radeon card to see how fast it is (maybe 8-12MB/s?). UWSCSI already runs at least 12-15MB/s (is slower than OS3.9 30MB/s). Whether there are other factors than pure throughput I do not know. CPU use for UWSCSI should be lower one would hope.

That SCSI card reader could indeed be useful, but why not instead use Deneb with a USB card reader? If you have the rom modules in its flash can it boot off USB? I'm not sure about that one. Do you know the max speed of the SCSI card reader in OS3.9? I do have one but not installed, may be worth checking out?
Amiga 4000T: CSPPC 604e@233/060@50 146MB RAM/CVPPC/Mediator/Radeon 256MB/Realtek 8029AS/TerraTec Solo1-N/Picasso IV (Paloma Pablo Concierto)/Deneb/ZorRAM 256MB/Indivision AGA MKII/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u4/OS3.9BB2
AmigaONE X1000: Nemo 2.1 PA6T-1682M@1.8 2GB RAM/Radeon HD 4770 512MB/Catweasel MK4+/Audigy 2 ZS/Realtek 8139D/OS4.xBETA/OS4.1u5
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Re: AmigaOS Classic 4.1 Update2 fails to install

Postby danbeaver » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:20 pm

Hey Again!

You are right (although perception and statistics provide a wide void) about speed across the Zorro III bus with both the the ZorRam and SATA card; SATA would give cheap access to a DVD (or even BluRay) drive -- although in black. I looked at the USB card solution, and externally it works well, but I also use one in my A2500 gaming rig where I only have SCSI. The thought process I used in some of my decisions is rather lame; the SCSI is parallel verse USB being serial. But then I start talking about SATA and my reasoning looks damned stupid. I already invested in the internal SCSI card reader (actually 3 of them) and fell in love with the simplicity; to back track is easy, but then I say, "What were you thinking?" Ah, a point to re-visit when I'm back in spending mode. I do know that the SCSI->IDE->(fast)CF card is pretty quick (22Meg/s vs. 29 Meg/s HDD -- measured), I'll test the other in a bit) , and CF cards are getting faster (equivalent to escalating cost) every day. I saw where you talked in another thread about allowing fast ram access to the ZorRam as an end-user option, but one reaches a point of memory map saturation between beloved devices and ram space; that's why I settled on a 128M ZorRam. If one picks a memory hungry application, then one should think of a newer hardware platform [vide supra], or quit complaining. I remember my A1000 running multiple windows with just 256K and KS 1.26. Nothing complex, but great fun in 1986.

You bring a lot of new thoughts to the table and I'm enjoying the perspective.

-Dan
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