Chris and I have recently come across some inconsistency in application behaviour as regards the treatment of "interim" settings - that is, settings that were (in the application's own settings window) confirmed via the "Use" button. There are programs that discard "Use"d settings when the application quits (Netsurf, MUI-OWB) while others (AmigaAMP, ADRipper) keep the intering settings saved in ENV: for further instances of the program to pick up. (In other words, the interim settings remain in place until system reset - this is what the OS prefs editors do as well).
The UI Style Guide is not very clear as to what the correct application behaviour should be in this particular respect. An official word from Hyperion (and an update to the Style Guide in the wiki) would be very welcome!
"Use"d settings: application behaviour
"Use"d settings: application behaviour
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Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
@trixie
Personally, I really hate it when I can't restart (close/open) a program with my "saved" prefs. I have to manually copy the prefs from ENVARC: to ENV: (if the prefs are saved in ENVARC:) before restarting some programs. However, there are probably times when someone would want to restart a program with the "use" settings. I think what we need is Style guide update that recommends 3 possibilities for prefs changes such as:
SAVE, USE, USE&REMEMBER
The USE&REMEMBER suggestion is a little awkward, so it would be better if someone could think of a word that would convey the idea more concisely. A Style Guide recommendation for a "Load Saved Prefs" or "Restore Saved Prefs" menu item would be a good alternative.
Personally, I really hate it when I can't restart (close/open) a program with my "saved" prefs. I have to manually copy the prefs from ENVARC: to ENV: (if the prefs are saved in ENVARC:) before restarting some programs. However, there are probably times when someone would want to restart a program with the "use" settings. I think what we need is Style guide update that recommends 3 possibilities for prefs changes such as:
SAVE, USE, USE&REMEMBER
The USE&REMEMBER suggestion is a little awkward, so it would be better if someone could think of a word that would convey the idea more concisely. A Style Guide recommendation for a "Load Saved Prefs" or "Restore Saved Prefs" menu item would be a good alternative.
AmigaOne X1000 with 2GB memory - OS4.1 FE
- LyleHaze
- AmigaOS Core Developer
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:06 pm
- Location: North Florida, near the Big Bend
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
From the doc wiki:
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/Configurin ... nd_AmigaOS
The "Save Use Test" concept, just a paragraph down from the top of page.
Save : make change permanent
Use: Keep change until next reboot, close window
test: apply change, but keep the window open.
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/Configurin ... nd_AmigaOS
The "Save Use Test" concept, just a paragraph down from the top of page.
Save : make change permanent
Use: Keep change until next reboot, close window
test: apply change, but keep the window open.
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
That's only referring to standalone prefs editors.LyleHaze wrote:From the doc wiki:
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/Configurin ... nd_AmigaOS
The "Save Use Test" concept, just a paragraph down from the top of page.
Save : make change permanent
Use: Keep change until next reboot, close window
test: apply change, but keep the window open.
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
@LyleHaze
There's a more relevant section in the wiki:
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/UI_Style_G ... ce_Editors
The good old Settings menu is becoming less common as the complexity of software increases. Apps now typically feature a dedicated settings window/prefs editor (built-in or standalone). What we want to know is whether such an editor should behave in the same way the OS prefs editors do ("Use" = remember settings until reboot) or not. Usage in software is apparently inconsistent.
There's a more relevant section in the wiki:
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/UI_Style_G ... ce_Editors
The good old Settings menu is becoming less common as the complexity of software increases. Apps now typically feature a dedicated settings window/prefs editor (built-in or standalone). What we want to know is whether such an editor should behave in the same way the OS prefs editors do ("Use" = remember settings until reboot) or not. Usage in software is apparently inconsistent.
The Rear Window blog
AmigaOne X5000 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
AmigaOne X5000 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
- thomasrapp
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:22 pm
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
I think everybody agrees that the function of the "Use" button is "apply settings now but forget them when the session ends".
Now it needs to be defined what a session is for each kind of program.
IMHO for the typical application the session ends when the program ends, i.e. when you select "quit" from the menu or something similar.
It is rather unintuitive to keep the current settings past the end of the program but restore them to something saved long ago when the computer reboots.
Of course every settings window should have an option to "restore to last saved", be it a button or a menu or something else.
Now it needs to be defined what a session is for each kind of program.
IMHO for the typical application the session ends when the program ends, i.e. when you select "quit" from the menu or something similar.
It is rather unintuitive to keep the current settings past the end of the program but restore them to something saved long ago when the computer reboots.
Of course every settings window should have an option to "restore to last saved", be it a button or a menu or something else.
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
You (wiki editors) control the UI Style Guide now so go ahead and fix it. Figure out what makes the most sense and make it happen. I don't see any need for Hyperion to be involved.trixie wrote:The UI Style Guide is not very clear as to what the correct application behaviour should be in this particular respect. An official word from Hyperion (and an update to the Style Guide in the wiki) would be very welcome!
ExecSG Team Lead
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
I agree with thomasrapp on this.
I see settings changes within an application as an "in memory" thing. They should only persist on next launch if the user has actually saved them. This is no different to the OS, it's just that the only way to restart that is to reboot.
I see settings changes within an application as an "in memory" thing. They should only persist on next launch if the user has actually saved them. This is no different to the OS, it's just that the only way to restart that is to reboot.
- thomasrapp
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:22 pm
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
BTW, IMHO it is a misunderstanding that ENV should be used to save temporary settings.
ENV holds what is called global variables.
Workbench uses a set of global variables plus the possibility to get informed when a variable changes to communicate with the external prefs editors. IMHO this does not mean that ENV is the preferred way for all applications to store temporary settings.
ENV holds what is called global variables.
Workbench uses a set of global variables plus the possibility to get informed when a variable changes to communicate with the external prefs editors. IMHO this does not mean that ENV is the preferred way for all applications to store temporary settings.
Re: "Use"d settings: application behaviour
Actually, I think it a misunderstanding that ENVARC: should be used for permanent program settings. Every time I boot or reboot, 70K of 3rd party prefs get copied to ENV: and there's not much I can do about it.thomasrapp wrote:BTW, IMHO it is a misunderstanding that ENV should be used to save temporary settings.
ENV holds what is called global variables.
Workbench uses a set of global variables plus the possibility to get informed when a variable changes to communicate with the external prefs editors. IMHO this does not mean that ENV is the preferred way for all applications to store temporary settings.
AmigaOne X1000 with 2GB memory - OS4.1 FE