10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

AmigaOne X1000 platform specific issues.

10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby Srtest » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:27 am

I've waited till the new Radeon drivers on AOS to post this - ever since I started to use the X1000 with a Sapphire HD5870 gfx card right from the get go I experienced a major overheating in AOS about an average of 57 degrees vs 47-49 on Linux with no major differences (in both os's) stemming from heavy or light uses. It even sometimes goes to 60 recorded degrees when the computer shuts itself down so I guess the recorded cpu temp of x1ktempdocky is more of an ambient temprature measuring caused by the gfx card as it seems the cpu doesn't overheat. The X1000 is the one Amigakit shipped to me and all the fans are working as they should so the A1 keeps cool on Linux or on CFE.
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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby Hans » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:43 pm

@Srtest

The linux drivers have dynamic power management, but AmigaOS does not. On AmigaOS the graphics card is set to max clock speeds + the voltages required to run at those speeds. So it will use more power even running idle.** While I would definitely like to add dynamic power management, they have made it very complicated to program. I don't see that happening any time soon.

If you're having overheating troubles, then you need to improve your system's cooling. Dynamic power management won't save you if you're running graphics intensive stuff on Linux. For example, play a demanding 3D game and the GPU will heat up far beyond what you're seeing in AmigaOS. Radeon HD 5870s are very power hungry, especially the 2GB version. So, using one does mean that you need better cooling than most others will, especially if you live in a hot climate. The A1-X1000's case provide plenty of mounting slots for extra fans, which are provided precisely for situations like yours.

I've never had any heat issues with my A1-X1000, but I live in a temperate climate zone (25 degrees celsius is considered hot here) and rarely have such a power hungry card plugged in. Nevertheless, I installed an extra fan in the bottom of my A1-X1000 to blow directly onto my passively cooled Radeon HD 4850 (which I used that the time). That actually allowed me to slow fans down to make the machine quieter.

Hans


** NOTE: If you're running dockies like x1ktempdocky that continually update, then your GPU is never actually idle, even if it isn't doing much.
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby abalaban » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:34 pm

@Srtest

Some day I will publish an updated version of the docky that would allow you to disengage the automatic shutdown. IIRC the latest public version should already allow to replace the automatic shutdown by a custom command, just set something like:
Code: Select all
requestchoice "Temperature warning" "The temperature is critical,*nyou'd better shutdown!" "Ok"


@Hans

Is there something to do in order to improve this situation?
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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby ddni » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:18 pm

Is there a way to directly measure GPU temperature through AmigaOS? I suspect that there isn't.
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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby abalaban » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:48 pm

ddni wrote:Is there a way to directly measure GPU temperature through AmigaOS? I suspect that there isn't.


A little hint: if there were one (publically known) I would have added it into X1kTempDocky ;) As soon as there is a method to do so (that I'm aware of) I will add it to my docky.
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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby Hans » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:16 am

abalaban wrote:@Hans

Is there something to do in order to improve this situation?

Sorry, but I don't think so.

ddni wrote:Is there a way to directly measure GPU temperature through AmigaOS? I suspect that there isn't.

No.

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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby Srtest » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:58 am

Hans wrote:@Srtest

The linux drivers have dynamic power management, but AmigaOS does not. On AmigaOS the graphics card is set to max clock speeds + the voltages required to run at those speeds. So it will use more power even running idle.** While I would definitely like to add dynamic power management, they have made it very complicated to program. I don't see that happening any time soon.

If you're having overheating troubles, then you need to improve your system's cooling. Dynamic power management won't save you if you're running graphics intensive stuff on Linux. For example, play a demanding 3D game and the GPU will heat up far beyond what you're seeing in AmigaOS. Radeon HD 5870s are very power hungry, especially the 2GB version. So, using one does mean that you need better cooling than most others will, especially if you live in a hot climate. The A1-X1000's case provide plenty of mounting slots for extra fans, which are provided precisely for situations like yours.

I've never had any heat issues with my A1-X1000, but I live in a temperate climate zone (25 degrees celsius is considered hot here) and rarely have such a power hungry card plugged in. Nevertheless, I installed an extra fan in the bottom of my A1-X1000 to blow directly onto my passively cooled Radeon HD 4850 (which I used that the time). That actually allowed me to slow fans down to make the machine quieter.

Hans


** NOTE: If you're running dockies like x1ktempdocky that continually update, then your GPU is never actually idle, even if it isn't doing much.


The 5870 which I have owned for 6 years proved to be effective up until recently with the latest 3Dmark and the games that followed so a high end card like that also turned out to be quite cost effective and a work horse along with its need for power. Even with the heaviest fps and PES2014 it was capable and there wasn't a overheating issue except maybe on certian drivers that were the cause so that's why I thought it may be the driver.

When I got the X1000 it overheated immediatelly so I found out the wires to the fans were disconnected on the travel overseas in addition maybe to some mishandling on my part and it was a very difficult job reconnecting them to the front panel again and the persisting overheating issue naturally got blamed on the cpu. I noticed the padding on the air vents just like Epsilon did here http://amigax1000.blogspot.co.il/2013/0 ... x1000.html so his way of fixing the heat issue is also an option. Even though I love the fact that when I open the X1000 there isn't a spec of dust inside. All of this is dwarfed compared to the fear I have of opening the X1000 at all unless absolutelly necessary like the need for more hard drives which is part rational and part irrational and exists wether eventually I add more fans or remove the padding.

Do you think maybe there is a way of limiting the gpu intentionally like on the pc you can limit the modern cpus so you can play certain old games?

Appreciate the response.
Last edited by Srtest on Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby Srtest » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:08 am

abalaban wrote:@Srtest

Some day I will publish an updated version of the docky that would allow you to disengage the automatic shutdown. IIRC the latest public version should already allow to replace the automatic shutdown by a custom command, just set something like:
Code: Select all
requestchoice "Temperature warning" "The temperature is critical,*nyou'd better shutdown!" "Ok"


@Hans

Is there something to do in order to improve this situation?


So now it is a matter of disabling the docky on the desktop or continue monitoring the heat issue with the docky's added command (the tool type I reckon?)... Didn't know it was the cause of the shutdown.
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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby Hans » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:45 am

Srtest wrote:The 5870 which I have owned for 6 years proved to be effective up until recently with the latest 3Dmark and the games that followed so a high end card like that also turned out to be quite cost effective and a work horse along with its need for power. Even with the heaviest fps and PES2014 it was capable and there wasn't a overheating issue except maybe on certian drivers that were the cause so that's why I thought it may be the driver.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I simply gave you an explanation for the temperature difference, and gave you a warning about relying on dynamic power management to keep the temperature down. If a game/app maxes out the GPU so that it runs at max speed 100% of the time, then it will heat up rapidly, and you will need adequate cooling. That it hasn't done so in another PC is irrelevant, since that case might well have a better cooling system. Or, your PC doesn't have a little docky that shuts down the machine at a certain temperature, and it was actually running perfectly fine at a much higher temperature. If I understand you correctly, it's the x1000temp docky that's shutting it down, and you're not experiencing actual failures due to overheating.

BTW, the driver raises the GPU's clocks and voltages to their rated values, as given by the graphics card's ROM. Basically, it's running at the speeds that the GPU is designed for.

Srtest wrote:When I got the X1000 it overheated immediatelly so I found out the wires to the fans were disconnected on the travel overseas in addition maybe to some mishandling on my part and it was a very difficult job reconnecting them to the front panel again and the persisting overheating issue naturally got blamed on the cpu. I noticed the padding on the air vents just like Epsilon did here http://amigax1000.blogspot.co.il/2013/0 ... x1000.html so his way of fixing the heat issue is also an option. Even though I love the fact that when I open the X1000 there isn't a spec of dust inside. All of this is dwarfed compared to the fear I have of opening the X1000 at all unless absolutelly necessary like the need for more hard drives which is part rational and part irrational and exists wether eventually I add more fans or remove the padding.

The A1-X1000's case has several spots for extra fans with dust filters, so I'd treat that extra air vent under the padding as a last resort. For example, if you have one fan installed in the front, then there is room there for a second one. There are also spots for fans in the base and back (the back one is intended for a fan that sucks air out, so it doesn't need a filter).

BTW, which temperature is reaching 60 degrees? The x1000temp docky gives several temperatures; one for each core, an overall CPU temperature, and an "ambient" one. Have you also checked that the CPU's own fan is spinning? If the CPU is getting hot, then that would be the first one that I'd check.

Srtest wrote:Do you think maybe there is a way of limiting the gpu intentionally like on the pc you can limit the modern cpus so you can play certain old games?

Not at present.

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Re: 10 degrees difference on Radeon HD5870 - AOS and Ubuntu

Postby Srtest » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:54 am

The overall CPU temperature reaches 60 and the cpu+fan are working fine. As I said on Linux it is fine.

What is a failure? to my understanding the CPU can work at 85 degrees so it's not about that. I don't know yet how to test it without the docky so maybe it could get more than 60.
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