Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

AmigaOne X5000 platform specific issues.

Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:57 am

Ribdevil wrote:Yes, if conect the other keyboard,the clock don't work.
The clock shows in every boot the same time.
It does not maintain it, I start the equipment, I adjust the hour. But when I turn it off and on again, show 12:00 on 01/01/2011.
This on every boot.
With the actual keyboard, the time and date it's O.K.

Magical mystery of AEON X5000 :)


Indeed...!

Could you possibly give us the manufacturer and exact model number (P/N:) of these two keyboards you have? It would be very intresting to test whether that problematic Keyboard modell can stop the realtime clock of whatever Cyrus+ board!
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Ribdevil » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:51 pm

Roland wrote:
Ribdevil wrote:Yes, if conect the other keyboard,the clock don't work.
The clock shows in every boot the same time.
It does not maintain it, I start the equipment, I adjust the hour. But when I turn it off and on again, show 12:00 on 01/01/2011.
This on every boot.
With the actual keyboard, the time and date it's O.K.

Magical mystery of AEON X5000 :)


Indeed...!

Could you possibly give us the manufacturer and exact model number (P/N:) of these two keyboards you have? It would be very intresting to test whether that problematic Keyboard modell can stop the realtime clock of whatever Cyrus+ board!



The one that fails, is : HP H3C52AA P/N : 691725-071 ( It's usaually conected to my HP laptop)
The working, is : Logitech ITouch P/N 867063-0104 ( White multimedia, with two USB ports, that don't work in the X5000 ( "low voltage level" appears in workbench). But works in PC. I think there's a problem with USB, at least in my board.
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:33 pm

Ribdevil wrote:The one that fails, is : HP H3C52AA P/N : 691725-071 ( It's usaually conected to my HP laptop)
The working, is : Logitech ITouch P/N 867063-0104 ( White multimedia, with two USB ports, that don't work in the X5000 ( "low voltage level" appears in workbench). But works in PC. I think there's a problem with USB, at least in my board.


Thank you! I was able to find the HP keyboard from HP partsurfer:

http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?searchText=H3C52AA

It is obviously sold with the name 'HP K1500 keyboard'. Is there any other X5000 user around who happens to have that model at hands...? Could you please test whether it affects the realtime clock of your X5000?

Ribdevil: have you also tested to boot you machine without any Keyboard connected? Not any problems in the clock then...?
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Cyborg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:12 am

Ribdevil wrote:The working, is : Logitech ITouch P/N 867063-0104 ( White multimedia, with two USB ports, that don't work in the X5000 ( "low voltage level" appears in workbench). But works in PC. I think there's a problem with USB, at least in my board.


No, your USB ports are fine. Thing is, each USB 2.0 port is usually specified to deliver 500mA current in total, which it tells the operating system. The OS then has to make sure, this maximum is never exceeded as it might simply burn your board (its power traces), if too much current is drawn. But continue reading before jumping to conclusions ;)

For your keyboard with its integrated hub it seems there is already so much current drawn, that most additionally connected devices cause this maximum to be exceeded. Hence, AmigaOS (more specifically the USB stack in AmigaOS) is refusing to attach (and power) those devices to protect your hardware.

In PC/Mac world, the operating systems just don't care, but rely on resettable fuses on each USB port, to limit the current drawn. By designing the hardware for a higher maximum current than the specification allows and a "don't care" software approach, they are supporting all sorts of devices which don't comply to the USB specification and require more than 500mA.

In addition there are certain "workarounds" and meanwhile also specifications to allow devices to recognize A/C wall chargers which deliver higher currents. But those involve shortening the USB data pins in one way or another, hence you can either load at higher pace OR transfer data. In contrast, Apple i-Devices do some more magic, allowing the device to draw even up to 1.8A from a USB data port to allow quicker charging, while at the same time allowing for data transfers. But AFAIK this only works with Mac and not PC as host.

In Amiga world, we don't really know if all hardware manufacturers implemented resettable fuses for their USB ports. So if we (the OS) would just don't care and rely on the hardware, it might be that said hardware is fried, just by connecting a non-compliant USB device trying to draw way too much current. Best case would be the resettable fuse activates and the device just doesn't work. Worse case, the fuse is not resettable, gets destroyed and you have to solder a new one to make the USB port work again. And worst case would obviously be no fuse at all, meaning from power traces over USB controllers to everything else could just burn. If that happens in PC world, you just go to your next radio shack and get yourself a new mainboard for 50 bucks, where in Amiga world you might have to invest several hundreds if not thousands for a replacement, if the damage is unrepairable. Who would like to take this chance if a self-powered hub is so much cheaper? ;)
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Radek » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:37 pm

I apologize to interfare, but thanks a lot Cyborg for this very informative post, i wish everyone has patience and knowledge to do like that in our little world.
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Ribdevil » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:00 pm

Roland wrote:
Ribdevil wrote:The one that fails, is : HP H3C52AA P/N : 691725-071 ( It's usaually conected to my HP laptop)
The working, is : Logitech ITouch P/N 867063-0104 ( White multimedia, with two USB ports, that don't work in the X5000 ( "low voltage level" appears in workbench). But works in PC. I think there's a problem with USB, at least in my board.


Thank you! I was able to find the HP keyboard from HP partsurfer:

http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?searchText=H3C52AA

It is obviously sold with the name 'HP K1500 keyboard'. Is there any other X5000 user around who happens to have that model at hands...? Could you please test whether it affects the realtime clock of your X5000?

Ribdevil: have you also tested to boot you machine without any Keyboard connected? Not any problems in the clock then...?



Whitout keyboard the X5000 boots fast ( fast anim ) and all it's O.K.
The clock works.

Virginio
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby trevordick » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:37 pm

Ribdevil,

Obviously the X5000 doesn't like your keyboard ( possible high current drain from a non-compliant USB device as explained by Costel in his post above). I use the The AmigaOne keyboard (cherry manufacturer) and it works fine as does the RTC.

Roland,

From your explanation your RTC problem appears very different. It sound like a hardware issue. In the first instance you should contact your original Amiga dealer and report the problem. If it is a hardware issue, it will need to be sent for examination and potential repair. Assuming it is a hardware issue and it has not been caused by you (sorry I had to say that ;-)), the repair should be free of charge.

Regards

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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:43 am

trevordick wrote:From your explanation your RTC problem appears very different. It sound like a hardware issue. In the first instance you should contact your original Amiga dealer and report the problem. If it is a hardware issue, it will need to be sent for examination and potential repair. Assuming it is a hardware issue and it has not been caused by you (sorry I had to say that ;-)), the repair should be free of charge. Trevor


Trevor: PM sent! (already two messages)
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby trevordick » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:29 pm

Roland,

Replied but please don't use PMs I tend to miss them.

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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:53 am

trevordick wrote:Roland,

Replied but please don't use PMs I tend to miss them.

Trevor


It was you who started ;-). PM sent to answer your PM...

IMHO, you should have a registration/ticket system for X5000 owners! Almost all of my message sent via the contact form on A-Eon's page has gone without answer, probably due to huge garbage percent as there is not any spam filter in the form.
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