Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

AmigaOne X5000 platform specific issues.

Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:10 pm

Ribdevil wrote:
Cyborg wrote:Huh? What has your (Ribdevil's) USB keyboard issue to do with Roland's inability to set the hardware clock?


I don't know, but the syntoms are the same.
One more problem are, that the keyboard did not work during boot.

Virginio


If you connect again the problematic keybord and boot, is the realtime clock immediately stopped? (if e.g. 10 minutes after booting you give in a CLI window first the command 'date', and then 'setclock load' and again 'date', is there a 10 minutes difference between these two time stamps?)
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Cyborg » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:12 am

@ Roland

Ok, if you replaced the battery already with a fresh one, regardless of checking the voltage, it rules out that easy solution. Was just asking to be sure.

I confess, I'm short of ideas. You are saying that the realtime clock does not behave, regardless under which OS you set it, so it really hints to a hardware fault of some sort. Best candidate would be the crystal oscillator directly or indirectly. If that one doesn't tick right, the clock doesn't as well. Power supply itself doesn't seem to be an issue obviously, the clock even holds the set datetime, but just doesn't advance it, as you say.

You really should contact your dealer. He in turn will for sure contact A-EON, as this smells like a Dead-On-Arrival thing and A-EON are the only ones being able to check the hardware as long as there are no authorized repair centers I don't know off :/
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:13 am

Cyborg wrote:@ Roland Ok, if you replaced the battery already with a fresh one, regardless of checking the voltage, it rules out that easy solution. Was just asking to be sure.


I got the batteries checked, anyway... The original one was on the low side (even though it is still able to keep A4000T in time), but the new one I bought was OK.

I confess, I'm short of ideas. You are saying that the realtime clock does not behave, regardless under which OS you set it, so it really hints to a hardware fault of some sort. Best candidate would be the crystal oscillator directly or indirectly. If that one doesn't tick right, the clock doesn't as well. Power supply itself doesn't seem to be an issue obviously, the clock even holds the set datetime, but just doesn't advance it, as you say.


IF it is the oscillator, how complicated is it to change it? Is it surface-mounted...?

You really should contact your dealer. He in turn will for sure contact A-EON, as this smells like a Dead-On-Arrival thing and A-EON are the only ones being able to check the hardware as long as there are no authorized repair centers I don't know off :/


I did that in the first place, but so far they they have refused my demands for replacement or repair... They said they have contacted A-Eon, and that someone over there is trying to replicate this problem. I suppose they still think (or hope) this is just a software problem, unless of course they are trying to damage some boards voluntarily and see how they behave :mrgreen:.
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Cyborg » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:58 am

Roland wrote:IF it is the oscillator, how complicated is it to change it? Is it surface-mounted...?


Yes, it is the tiny silver "barrel" right beside the coin cell on the main board.
However, crystal oscillators don't just oscillate because they can, they must get "animated" from the outside to do it. So it might be the osci itself, but also the "animation" source .. also it is impossible to measure an oscillator itself directly as the measurement would already disturb the function. Only indirect measurement is possible. So you need in any case somebody who really knows what he is doing in order to get it checked. Without the schematics of the board, it might still be possible but of course a tad more difficult

I did that in the first place, but so far they they have refused my demands for replacement or repair... They said they have contacted A-Eon, and that someone over there is trying to replicate this problem. I suppose they still think (or hope) this is just a software problem, unless of course they are trying to damage some boards voluntarily and see how they behave :mrgreen:.


sigh ... there really is nothing to "replicate". It works on many other boards with AmigaOS, while it doesn't work on yours with any operating system. So the only way to check it is to investigate your board directly.
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Ribdevil » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:45 pm

Cyborg wrote:Ahh... you *also* have the problem of a non-ticking realtime clock and *in addition* keyboard issues in U-Boot. And of course, only the keyboard issues were solved after you changed the keyboard.

Sorry, was a misunderstanding.

Anyway, your keyboard issues are an U-Boot issue, which is not our responsibility. Please contact A-EON support. And regarding the non-ticking realtime clock, if you also made sure it is no drained CR2032 battery, then you also should contact A-EON for support (or your dealer, who will likely point to A-EON as well).

But I'd really be interested, if it might not just a weak battery causing this problems..



N0, I know it's a hardware problem, but after change the keyboard, the clock works fine. Which is the relationship between the clock and the keyboard ?, no idea, but it was solved by changing the keyboard.
So I told Cyborg, if he can, try changing the keyboard.

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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:19 pm

Ribdevil wrote: N0, I know it's a hardware problem, but after change the keyboard, the clock works fine. Which is the relationship between the clock and the keyboard ?, no idea, but it was solved by changing the keyboard.
So I told Cyborg, if he can, try changing the keyboard.


But in my case, the problem is present even if I boot WITHOUT any keyboard, or any other USB peripheral! It is impossible that the realtime clock would necessarily need a certain keyboard to be present to work, or then the machine is totally out of rail... Have you tried to boot your machine without any keyboard connected? What happens then, is your realtime clock stopped?

BTW, I was just contacted by another X5000 user who has had for 2 years exactly the same symptoms I have in my machine! And as he is a beta tester and a very experienced user, I believe he would definitely have in this time found a solution if there were such... So this seems to be quite clearly a production error, even though relatively rare.
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Cyborg » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:58 pm

@ Ribdevil
Wow.. the keyboard being the reason for the realtime clock not working.. that is.. scary :/

@ Roland
So how did this mysterious beta tester and experienced user then solve the issue? Got his board replaced by A-EON?
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Roland » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:59 am

Cyborg wrote: So how did this mysterious beta tester and experienced user then solve the issue? Got his board replaced by A-EON?


As he did not post his comment here but contacted me by PM, I considered it correct to keep his name secret...;-) If I undrerstood right, he is sitll using that defective board. It is probable difficult to convince A-Eon/Varisys that there is a hardware problem if there are not any other users with the same problem. Now when there are already three boards with similar type of issues the changes are better. But should we contact directly Varisys, to get things forward? I have already contacted AmigaKit, but their 'tehnical suppoort' is currently on vacation.
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Cyborg » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:34 am

Well, Varisys is only a contractor of A-EON and is not responsible for customer support. So it is A-EON who needs to care as the "manufacturer". But strictly spoken, you should always go through your dealer to get 1st level support. He is your contract partner. If he can't do anything himself and points you to A-EON, he should also make sure you have a contact at A-EON. If you bought at AmigaKit, your basically bought directly from A-EON. So if AmigaKit's "technical support" is on vacation, so is A-EON's and you are out of luck for now.

I confess, I'm surprised that A-EON/AmigaKit refused to look into this issue for more than 2 years already, because "only a few are affected". In my personal understanding, if only a single board shows something like that, the manufacturer should instantly investigate the issue to make sure it is no production problem or at least to make sure his customers (regardless if beta testers or not) get a working product. Having to "convince" the manufacturer to make sure his 2000 Euro product is running fine has a strange aftertaste.. :/

Anyway, I wish you all the best to get this sorted with A-EON/AmigaKit.
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Re: Low level access to X5000 realtime clock

Postby Ribdevil » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:10 pm

Roland wrote:
Ribdevil wrote:
Cyborg wrote:Huh? What has your (Ribdevil's) USB keyboard issue to do with Roland's inability to set the hardware clock?


I don't know, but the syntoms are the same.
One more problem are, that the keyboard did not work during boot.

Virginio


If you connect again the problematic keybord and boot, is the realtime clock immediately stopped? (if e.g. 10 minutes after booting you give in a CLI window first the command 'date', and then 'setclock load' and again 'date', is there a 10 minutes difference between these two time stamps?)



Yes, if conect the other keyboard,the clock don't work.
The clock shows in every boot the same time.
It does not maintain it, I start the equipment, I adjust the hour. But when I turn it off and on again, show 12:00 on 01/01/2011.
This on every boot.
With the actual keyboard, the time and date it's O.K.

Magical mystery of AEON X5000 :)

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